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So explain to me... (Part one)
In a desperate attempt to improve my Torchwood-writing, and because I have a fanfic100 claim on the entire Torchwood team, not just those members I like/understand/have a million plot ideas for, I'm asking you for help.
Explain to me, please, as politely as you can manage (I'm not here for a fight), exactly why Gwen is a good/useful/likeable character.
Because I don't quite get it. Up to... oh... about Small Worlds (episode 5) I quite liked her. Beyond that...
So, anyway. Gwen fans. I need you to tell me why she's a vital part of the team, and why I'd actually enjoy writing her if I got it right, so I can stop coming up with excuses for her absence in my fic. (Seriously. I don't really give her a starring role (or even a mildly vital role) at any point. I feel guilty.)
Help?
(Also, convince me Jack/Gwen can work.)
Explain to me, please, as politely as you can manage (I'm not here for a fight), exactly why Gwen is a good/useful/likeable character.
Because I don't quite get it. Up to... oh... about Small Worlds (episode 5) I quite liked her. Beyond that...
So, anyway. Gwen fans. I need you to tell me why she's a vital part of the team, and why I'd actually enjoy writing her if I got it right, so I can stop coming up with excuses for her absence in my fic. (Seriously. I don't really give her a starring role (or even a mildly vital role) at any point. I feel guilty.)
Help?
(Also, convince me Jack/Gwen can work.)
no subject
So hi. I like Gwen. And here's why:
1) Yes, she's the Everyman character as someone else said. Her main purpose is to introduce us, the viewers, to what Torchwood does, how they do it, the things they get into. Without her, there would be no reason to explain -anything- because the characters would all know how everything worked. There would have been no need to explain the glove, for instance, because they'd all seen Suzie use it. There'd have been no reason to explain the weevils, because they all knew what they were and where they came from, etc. We would very likely not have been given that first tour of the hub with her, because Jack already knows everything that's there and he certainly wouldn't to lead, oh, Tosh around, telling her how all the stuff she already knows works.
2) Tied into that, she is meant to react the way we would react, if we were thrust into Torchwood suddenly. While we all may think that we'd handle the sudden undeniable knowledge that there are real aliens out there better than Gwen does, I really don't think most people would. I think most of us *would* puke at stumbling over those bodies in Countrycide. I think most of us *would* stand and gape at a weevil or a glowing alien girl or the faeries hopping around in someone's back yard.
3) She's not perfect. She lies almost from the moment she learns about Torchwood, to Rhys, and she's -good- at it. It's easy for her. She has an affair with Owen because she can't handle not having someone who understands what's going on at work. She's really, when you boil her down, replaced Suzie almost completely. The glove, Owen, the inability to cope on her own...and yet I haven't seen anyone saying how they don't like Suzie. It's odd. :) I'm fairly certain that she was just as flawed as Gwen, and more so, given the elaborate plan that's discovered in They Keep Killing Suzie.
4) She -is- the human, compassionate part of Torchwood. She does make them consider the people first. Let's face it, the rest of them are not particularly aware of the people aspect most of the time. Tosh is removed and very reserved, Owen has his perpetual coat of I don't care, Ianto has his own issues (which are hard to name, given that I think his character as written has wild personality changes). Even Jack forgets how to handle the human side of things sometimes, so they really do need her perspective and her ability to connect with the people involved, rather than treating everything just as a case. If that makes sense.
And. That's enough rambling for one comment.
no subject
I liked Gwen to start with, and I try not to get drawn in to the fighting and hatred that seems to surround her (hence this post, to help me understand both sides better), but as the series went on I lost a lot of my liking for her character. It seemed she was always the main focus of attention (when for one thing, there's a lovely ensemble cast, and for another I was led to believe it was Jack's show!) and usually ended up being either the damsel in distress, or the catalyst for the beginning or end of a plotline. It started to annoy me that we never saw much of anyone else. (Tosh and Ianto got one episode each. Jack got one that was really his, Owen got maybe two (at a great stretch, three) that were about him. Gwen seemed to get all the rest.) And yet the other characters of Team Torchwood all have secrets and mystery for us to explore... Gwen has a normal life with very little to uncover until she starts keeping secrets from Rhys - but we already know all her secrets. (Unless she turns out to be a Time Agent and it's all a ruse... :) )
That's the basic rundown of why I think Gwen grew to be so disliked. Now I get to answer your points in order. :) (Please, no offence intended - I'm just trying to sort out everyone's reasons and explain why I don't follow that particular line of thought, so that you or anyone else can come back with some new reasons to like her. Hopefully ones I'll have to agree with.)
1. I've been thinking about the introduction of Torchwood, actually, and wondering if it would have worked had we (for example) simply followed one of the others to work one day. And I think the audience is smart enough to pick up on what's not explicitly explained - we all knew what Suzie had done the first time we saw the glove in action, right at the beginning of episode one. We didn't really need anyone to tell us, "Yep, that thing brings people back from the dead for a limited time." We saw that. If the camera followed any one of the team on their daily routine (Ianto would be most useful, as he wanders all areas of the Hub) we get a tour as we go. Not that much is actually explained to Gwen (Jack says they don't even know where the Weevils come from. All the audience needs to know is that they're alien, dangerous, and apparently not of a high level of intelligence - and that can be shown in the same way it was originally, by one being captured) apart from the team's individual roles. And that, I argue, could easily be shown. Maybe it's throwing the viewer in at the deep end, but plenty of other shows do that, and people cope. For that purpose, then, Gwen isn't strictly necessary - she's simply one form of introduction, when there are others (arguably more unusual/interesting) available.
2. This one, I agree. You're right. Generally speaking, her reactions are what most people's would be. In the beginning of the series, at least.
(More in the next comment - I seem to have written you an essay in return! Sorry about that. ^_^')
no subject
The thing with Suzie is that she's painted as a megolamaniacal villain, really. Therefore, her flaws are expected, because they contribute to her descent into madness and murder. Gwen is meant to be our beloved heroine, yet she displays every sign of going exactly the same way as Suzie, only quicker. Why are we meant to feel sympathy (and empathy, scarily) for one and yet be happy when the other is killed? It doesn't quite make sense to me.
4. In the beginning of the series, yes, Gwen brings a much needed humanity to Torchwood. Jack, Owen and Tosh had perhaps become too mired in the work to remember the importance of individuals as well as the idea of "saving the world". Ianto was quite the opposite - so caught up with saving one individual that he didn't have any time left to care about anyone else. But they're not all that bad. Tosh's enthusiasm when she talks to Mary about various aspects of working for Torchwood also encompasses things like letters from an alien to his family - and if we add in the official site, she explores various ways of saying "I love you" with symbols as she tries to understand an alien language. She's far from removed and reserved in those instances - most of the time she just seems to be too shy to show this side of her.
Gwen's perspective and "ability to connect with the people involved" did come in useful, and was something they needed reminding of. But in an organisation that deals with all sorts of horrific cases, that could also be a weakness. They have to maintain some sort of professional distance to avoid getting too caught up in things (see Owen in Ghost Machine) and to be able to make rational decisions - not everything can be solved by being emotive and following your heart. Everything in moderation, and Gwen may well take things just that little bit too far...
You have some points I agree with, and I can kind of see why some people like her for all that, but I'm still not converted. Like quite a few of the arguments I've seen so far, this seems to rely on early-series events, and I'm not too sure that everything still applies to Gwen by the end of it all...
Thank you for your lovely long comment, anyway. And you have helped make it a little clearer why some people like her so much - even if I haven't bought into it just yet. :)
no subject
Re #3: A couple of things.
I think that watching Gwen head down the same path Suzie took is not supposed to be hypocritical, in the yay, Suzie's dead/oh poor Gwen sense. I think it's actually supposed to make us feel *more* empathy for Suzie and understand her motivation more, given that Gwen appears warped by the same responsibilities *so quickly*. Like saying, look, if this ordinary woman who's only been on the team X short amount of time is having trouble flying right, can you *imagine* what someone who'd been second-in-command (and using the glove) for *years* would have gone through? The real question is whether Gwen can pull herself back from the brink like Suzie couldn't. And I find that really fascinating to watch.
As far as Owen vs. Jack and "talking" to them. I think it's true that the only one Gwen *talks* to is Jack. I think Owen and Gwen when they're together, pre or post sex, probably vent, bitch, gripe, whatever. But I don't get the sense that they really sit down and have meaningful discussion like Gwen does with Jack. They're different sorts of relationships and she seems, to me, to value them very differently. I'm not sure, for instance, that if it were Owen who could come back from the dead, that Gwen would have spent three days waiting for him, because they don't have that sort of connection. If that makes sense.
Re #4: I think you're right. I think she *is* (or was) too involved and too emotional. I think that's a lot of the reason why she changes throughout the course of the series (and, frankly, why people find themselves disliking her in later episodes). Because she does get worked up and involved and compassionate about these cases and that sort of committment, constantly, will run you ragged and wear you down, unless you learn how now to care so deeply. But teaching yourself to detach and not care when that's not your natural state, so to speak, means that you're going to make huge, messy mistakes, screw up with people you really *do* care about (i.e. Rhys) because you haven't figured out where the line between engaged/detached is, and you're going to fall and have to pick yourself up a lot.
no subject
Hm. I can understand why you thought it was going to be Jack's show, given that he's the cross-over character, the one we already know, etc. It would make sense that he's the one who drives the action, since he's the one we theoretically care about.
But he's not one of us, if you know what I mean? Obviously RTD and the BBC were counting on DW fandom to help carry the show to success, as not all of the things in TW make sense to someone who never saw DW (am I using enough initials? Sorry!), but if you're looking to *build* your viewership, not just have one core group of viewers carry two shows, which could in theory diminish the audience for each, then there has to be something that will draw in people who *don't* know the world too.
And that pretty much means you need an accessible, understandable character. We think, as fans of the universe, that Jack is accessible because we know him, we've seen him in action, but to someone brand new to the franchise, he's another time traveling "alien".
So yes, for someone familiar with the concept of the show, maybe following Owen or Ianto or even Jack himself into work and figuring out what they do day to day based on clues and the character's familiarity with the creatures/gizmos/etc. would work for one of us. Not so much for Joe Average.
Please note, I'm not trying to say that viewers are stupid, but that that's the way TV works. In the 60s, when Star Trek first aired, they could very well have given us Spock as a primary POV character. Instead, they gave us Kirk who, despite being a man from the future, is human, for example. Viewers didn't, then, have to work on figuring out both the world *and* how to relate to the green dude with pointy ears.
Shows that do "throw the viewer in at the deep end" tend not to do very well. And by deep end, *I* mean (to make it clear that I'm not saying this is what you meant), headlong into a world not only full of exciting, actiony things happening, but also with new rules to the world itself. The example I give for this one?
Firefly. I don't know if you watched it or were a fan, but that's a show that was ensemble. There was no introductory character. Viewers were expected to leap into the story and buy into wholesale. Yes, they were introduced to the characters and how they arrived on board, but there was no one character who could learn with them and be guided through this new universe. Even Simon, the most fish-out-of-water character on the ship still grew up in this odd (for us) world and understood rules that we the viewers knew nothing about.
...wow. Spam. But I hope that makes sense.